General

• Meeting chaired by Basil (Roses of Dawn, THB Co-Coordinator)
• Notes made during meeting by Elsheindra (The One, THB Co-Coordinator)
• Meeting time: 18:00 to 19:30ish Game Time

Proposed Agenda

1. Welcome & Guild Rep/GM Changes (Elsheindra)
   1. Gimlinox as new leader of PL
2. Welcome new Reps that can attend – Trovlard, Shazbot, Astarte.
3. Representative Job/THB Organisation Review (Basil & Elsheindra)
   1. THB channel password change (Basil & Elsheindra)
   2. Intended for 25 Dec 2007
   3. New Honourbound Ventrilo Server (Basil & Elsheindra)
   4. Access information
   5. Paying for
   6. Rules for use
4. Raiding Progress (Basil)
   1. Karazhan status/progress of current groups
   2. Forming a new Karazhan group
   3. Zul'Aman organised raids
   4. Planning for Gruul's lair
5. Change to Looting/Grouping Rules
   1. Drop requirement for lists of roles by guild (Elsheindra)
6. Applications To Join THB (Elsheindra)
   1. Heresy

Final Attendees

• Co-Coordinators
  • Basil - Roses of Dawn
  • Elsheindra - The One (Guild Leader)

• Circle of Elder
  • Wheat
• Phoenix Legion
  • No representative available
• Spirits of the Wolf
  • Trident (Princebrian – guest rep)
• The One
  • Popcorn (Rianna)
• Roses of Dawn
  • Astrakhan (Astarte)
  • Kanine (arrived late)
• Ye Olde Geezers
  • Eztiger (Jungore)

Final Decisions/Major Points

• Welcome & Guild Rep/GM Changes (Basil & Elsheindra)
  • Trovlard (The One) decided not to take on rep job. Trident (Princebrian) covering for Spirits of the Wolf.
• Representative Job/THB Organisation Review (Basil)
  • HB designed as loose alliance of similar-minded guilds, with intention of each guild maintaining its own character, while keeping everything workable. Provide HB Leaders forum (http://www.wowkindness.com/) to communicate with reps, all of whom should have access and receive e-mails automatically with any updates.
  • Reps should pass info on to their guilds via whatever method works best within their guild. Likewise, guilds need to speak to their reps should problems arise. The idea is that reps know their guild members best and can mediate within a guild as much as possible.
  • Co-coordinators rely on reps to inform us if something is up by in-game mail, e-mail, or on the forum. While we do chat with reps normally, we don't spend time catching up with everybody as it would take a large portion of playtime.
  • Reps intended to speak for their guilds, so we want at least 1 rep per guild at meetings. More can attend but they need to decide amongst themselves on decision-making as we want a guild view, not an individual rep view. We have multiple reps to ensure that there is someone online for the guild or other reps to talk to.
  • Reminder: HB and other guilds have no power over individual guild members. Good or bad feedback needs to go to that guild's reps and it is up to that guild to deal with any issues raised.
  • At worst, HB can exclude (temporarily/permanently) people from HB events by adding their name to the relevant blacklist. It's up to event leaders to use these lists.
  • Reps can and should try to mediate problems. If a third-party is needed, the co-coordinators can act as a neutral third-party to help mediate.
• THB channel password change (Basil)
  • Current HB password almost a year old. Needs to be changed as guilds have seen members change and we're seeing increasing numbers of unguilded/non-HB-guilded people on the channel. They normally leave or explain their membership when queried, but good security practices suggests regular password changes.
  • In order for a password change to work, everyone must change at the same time. or it causes havok, as recently demonstrated. [edited]
• We need to agree on a new password, agree on a date to change it, and let our guildies know. Proposed password is "" [edited out] on December 25th.
  • Trident (SotW) asks if we shouldn't use January 1st instead and who is the "we" who must change passwords. Basil responds that Christmas seems quieter. Eztiger (YOG) suggests phasing it over a few days. Basil responds that doesn't work and leads to havoc. Elsheindra suggests that this is where reps come in. They can spam their guild channels. They can message guildies. They can update the message of the day. They can change the guild info panel, etc.
  • Decision: January 1st to be change date for password @ 02:00 Server Time. Basil to post instructions on how to change GEM passwords and on channel administration [some information edited out here].
• New Honourbound Ventrilo Server (Basil & Elsheindra)
  • WoW has voice comms now but not very ideal to use.
  • Some people have their own voice comms server (e.g. Team Red) which they let people use for various reasons.
  • Given how useful voice communication is, Basil and Elsheindra have established an Honourbound voice communications server. It currently has 25 slots and is up for 6 months (minus 2 weeks or so).
    It has several channels for instance runs and conversations and is open for general HB use. Note, however, that Team Pink will be using it for their raids and, in case of capacity issues (unlikely but possible), we may remove people to allow Team Pink people in to the server. Also, if we run an HB 25-person raid, that may soak up all capacity. The server is flexible and we can review usage over time and adjust it.
  • Elsheindra points out there were previous objections to voice comms on the grounds of hardware requirements, but Ventrilo is very lightweight and nobody expected/required to speak during events using it. Basil reminds people that event leaders need to be aware that not everyone on Ventrilo, so will need to provide instructions in typed chat as well as orally. If an event leader has specified in advance that everyone must be able to hear and everyone agrees to that requirement, then that's not necessary of course. As with loot rules, HB rules are the default, but any event leader can specify their own rules as long as the changes are made clear and all in event are aware.
  • Eztiger (YOG) asks if server is available all the time. Basil says it's commercially hosted (paid for by Basil and Elsheindra) and is active all the time.
  • The host provides a donate money link. We need to look into that to see if it can be used to provide extra capacity if needed, but by default extends the duration of the rental. We have 6 months at the moment. We intend to maintain it at 25-person, but we will make the link available somewhere accessible for people who wish to donate.
    Decision: Reps to pass on voice comms server information: ventrilo.honourbound.org, port 27563. Password is "" [edited out]. Event leaders can require everyone to be listening but must have agreement on that from all event attendees prior to starting, as with any other changes from default HB rules.
  • Decision: Elsheindra to make the donation link available.
• Raiding Progress (Basil)
  • 3 Karazhan fixed groups currently running (Blue, Red and Pink). More people waiting on the Fixed Group list. Some of those can't commit to regular dates or have shiftwork patterns. Shift patterns can work well, but the raid leader needs to know in advance and be willing to find replacements.
  • Team Blue (Thursday/Mondays/Tuesday, led by Trovlard/Terhen) have made solid progress, taking down Aran reliably and have killed the Prince. They're working on optional bosses.
  • Team Pink (Thursdays/Tuesdays, led by Basil/Wandjina) can reliably kill Curator, has downed Aran, and gotten the Prince down to 8%. They've had some fluctuation in members which is still ongoing.
  • Team Red (Thursday/Monday/Tuesday, led by Wheat) have cleared Karazhan on their first night in 4 hours end to end. They are using one of the other days for Zul'Aman.
  • Wheat (CoE) points out Team Red days are changing to Karazhan on Thursday and Zul'Aman Monday. Tuesday's freed up for other things.
  • We have a potential leader for another, but they are having trouble getting things arranged, partly due to real life issues.
  • If anyone knows people willing to lead, please encourage them to speak to us. We'll hopefully also see more people arriving on the waiting list so that a group can be formed easily.
  • Wheat (CoE) says he's started a 4th group on Saturday nights with Blox. Basil says he had the impression that it wasn't intended as a fixed group. Wheat would like to see more people having the chance to raid Karazhan but a core of 5 or 6 who know the task makes sense for all. Trident concurs. Wheat continues that 5 or 6 people will be stable and he's happy to rotate on the others. Basil summarises it as Wheat aiming for a fixed core + drop-ins, to which he's in favour as it does give people not in fixed groups a chance to get to Karazhan. Wheat would like the colour white.
  • Trident (SotW) asks about the teams that have cleared Karazhan and whether they should try Gruul's to complete the T4 sets. Basil responds that's next up on the agenda and that's also why we coughed up for 25-slots on the voice communications server.
  • Decision: Elsheindra to add Team White to Karazhan raiding info page and Karazhan raid progress page.
  • Zul'Aman is new, so we're still sorting that out. It's primarily fixed groups going as they are geared. Elsheindra points out that Wednesday/Saturday is a composite, drop-in group. Basil agrees and points out it's made up of members from fixed groups, so we have some level of comfort in their gear. Elsheindra adds that Wednesday/Saturday group and Team Red have both downed the bear boss in Zul'Aman.
  • Gruul's Lair: 25-person, no attunement required. You don't even have to be level 70 to enter. The trash is fairly easy but the boss fights are not. Trident adds that the trash hits quite hard. Popcorn says L66 rogues can get inside and take 30k damage in 2 seconds. High Council, Basil continues, needs specific geared-up classes and a good level of gear for each member, and a very high level of coordination. Gruul is a bigger gear check. Trident (SotW) adds that Gruul is most tactics and Kara-geared people. Realistically, people going to Gruul's need to be mostly epic'd up in L70 epics (Karazhan, PvP, or Heroics). Also need people used to listening to how fights are done and playing by the encounter rules. With 3 raid groups doing well in Karazhan, it is time to move on to Gruul's. We do need to communicate clearly to our guilds what is needed to pull your weight in there. Wheat adds there are a lot of class-specific requirements: good mages and hunters important as well as tanks. Basil continues, we also need to find an evening where the current fixed raiders (as our pool of geared up people) can attend. Trident suggests that all attendees read up on tactics and bring potions/flasks. An event leader is still to be determined but for now, please ask in your guilds who is geared up enough and what days they have available. Also check on their willingness to read tactics in advance and to do as told.
  • Gruul not intended to fixed, but the leader will have discretion over who is invited, in order to try to make sure it works. This is especially important as it's not just down to gear but also to coordination.
  • Decision: Raid leader to be determined. For now, ask in your guilds for people who are geared up enough, what days they have available, and whether they're willing to read tactics in advance and to do as told. We will then assemble a list to work out which day is best.
• Change to Looting/Grouping rules
  • This is primarily to drop requirement for lists of roles by guild. As posted in forums, role lists haven't always appeared and aren't being maintained consistently. Given Armoury allows event leaders to check specs (or you can inspect in game), are there any objections to dropping these lists? They were intended to give leaders a place to look up preferred roles in game but this now seems obsoleted.
  • Decision: Remove requirement for role lists. Elsheindra will update web site accordingly. GEM items will disappear at end of year or can be removed by current list owners.
• Applications To Join THB
  • Heresy has applied to join. It's a relatively new guild with a few L70s and a few more at lower levels. Keen to join. Seromontis (their leader) has been actively chatting to Elsheindra and Basil to see what needs doing. We don't know much about them. Some concerns have been raised, but that may get cleared up. There has been very little feedback on the forum. For general info, they split off from IR. Many people in HB have friends in IR. Basil wants an informed decision on this. [edited]
  • How can we get to know them better? Past method was via 40-person raids. Not an option. Wheat (CoE) says only way is to group with them and Astrakhan (RoD) says best way to move forward is to talk to each other. Basil says that Saturday's drop-in raids (White/Zul'Aman) are an option or for people to make an effort to group with Heresy members to form an opinion. As a rep, you don't have to group personally – just get guildies with sound judgements to do the grouping and report back.
  • Decision: Astrahkan (RoD) to talk to Roses members who may have concerns about Heresy. [edited]
  • Decision: We need to know more about them before admitting them. Make an effort (including via guildies) to get to know members of Heresy more.
  • Decision: We need to give Heresy an idea of how long it will take to form an opinion: suggestions on the forum, please!
• Any Other Business
  • No longer exists. If you have issues, please post it on the forum or let Basil/Elsheindra know.
  • Can get in touch with us using Basil/Elsheindra AT Honourbound DOT org or both of us together using info AT honourbound DOT org
• Next Meeting Date
  • Decision: To be determined when we have an agenda. People can volunteer to champion items.