General

• Meeting chaired by Wandjina (Roses of Dawn, THB Co-Coordinator)
• Notes made during meeting by Elsheindra (The One, THB Co-Coordinator)
• Meeting time: 19:30 to 21:00

Proposed Agenda

1. Welcome
2. THB Status
3. Heresy Application
4. Dead Guilds

Actual Agenda

1. Welcome
2. Guild leader changes
3. Review of decisions made December 1, 2007
4. Heresy application
5. Dead Guilds: Spirits of the Wolf
6. THB Current Status
7. GEM Channel & Alts.

Final Attendees

• Co-Coordinators
  • Wandjina - Roses of Dawn
  • Elsheindra - The One (Guild Leader)

• Circle of Elder
  • Bingley (Guild Leader)
• Phoenix Legion
  • Gimlinox (Blueligth - Guild Leader)
• Spirits of the Wolf
  • No representatives available
• The One
  • Rianna
• Roses of Dawn
  • Astrakhan
  • Kanine
• Ye Olde Geezers
  • Eztiger (Jungore)
  • Jazhara (Guild Leader)

Final Decisions/Major Points

• Welcome
  • Elsheindra covers recent guild leader changes for Circle of Elder (Oakk has left, Bingley is new G.M.) and Spirits of the Wolf (Sopheia passed it on to Trident but it's since gone back to Sopheia under an alt).
  • Spirits of the Wolf has no reps present tonight and nobody recognizable as authoritative/responsible for that guild.
• Decisions from Last Meeting
  • Decision: Reps to pass on voice comms server information. Event leaders can require everyone to be listening but must have agreement on that from all event attendees prior to starting, as with any other changes from default HB rules.
  • Decision: Elsheindra to make the donation link available. (done - see THB Ventrilo Server and THB Guilds, Representatives, and Web Sites. A link also appears in the MOTD on the Ventrilo server itself.) Not sure anyone's donated but we haven't hit cap yet and still pre-paid.
  • Decision: Elsheindra to add Team White to Karazhan raiding info page and Karazhan raid progress page. ( done - see Honourbound Krazy Killing in Karazhan - 2007 and Karazhan Raid Progress). Not really relevant anymore due to departure of Wheat a week after it started.
  • Decision: Gruul's Lair: Raid leader to be determined. For now, ask in your guilds for people who are geared up enough, what days they have available, and whether they're willing to read tactics in advance and to do as told. We will then assemble a list to work out which day is best. No list made but B&E started running Gruul's every Sunday evening a week after last meeting. Continued until last week. This week's cancelled due to perceived lack of ability to progress.
  • Decision: Remove requirement for role lists. Elsheindra will update web site accordingly. GEM items will disappear at end of year or can be removed by current list owners. (in progress) Done by everyone except YOG, who need to have Amara remove GEM event still.
  • Remaining decisions related to Heresy. Deferred to that agenda item.
  • Password change: Has been done and went well except for a mishap last week.
• Heresy Application
  • Wandjina comments this has been stalled because Seromontis turned over leadership of the guild but has since returned.
  • Elsheindra and Wandjina took Seromontis with them on a few Zul'Aman runs, but not much contact really otherwise; either no appropriately geared Heresy members online or not available when we asked them to group with us.
  • Gimlinox (Phoenix Legion) has grouped with Seromontis and knows a few members casually.
  • Eztiger (Ye Olde Geezers) comments that response from YOG was small but positive. Jazhara (Ye Olde Geezers) willing to give them a shot or try to get a few members for Gruul's.
• Rianna's (The One) done some heroic runs with Seromontis and PvPing with Diviniti. Seem to be competent and nice people.
  • Rianna (The One) wants to know about Roses issues.
  • Elsheindra comments that Nojneak hasn't been online much and was somewhat offended when he was bumped from a Zul'Aman run for being undergeared.
  • Wandjina suggests we're moving towards a favourable decision but we see the same names cropping up repeatedly and it's an entire gbuild we're discussing as a whole for membership.
  • Elsheindra comments she already provided feedback to Seromontis that there were some concerns with specific members of Heresy. Also, there had been an in-guild problem in Heresy where it was felt Heresy should have cancelled their THB application.
  • Rhyver (temporary Heresy GM) and Shekin (The One) were working on a list of Heresy members and contact points for us to use. Wandjina will chase that up to help us hopefully get more feedback and more members of Heresy involved.
  • Wandjina proposes: We could move forward in a week or two and give them Honourbound details and a trial membership. If it doesn't work out, we can change the password if we have to, although we'd hope they'd be polite enough to just leave. While a specific problem individual can be blacklisted, we have seen instances of a single person causing trouble for everyone, which is why we're minded to be cautious.
  • Decision: Astrakhan (Roses of Dawn) to urgently look at Roses members who have issues with Heresy.
  • Decision: Provide feedback back to Seromontis about Heresy concerns and that these need to be discussed with Astrakhan from the Roses.
  • Decision: Continue to try to get more Heresy members involved. Return to the issue of inviting them later.
• Dead Guilds: Spirits of the Wolf
  • They are members of THB but we've not seen much of them in events or even in the channel.
  • Decision: Spirits of the Wolf put on "pending loss of membership" status. If no activity to resolve this by next meeting, their membership to be revoked and declare them as "lost". In the interim, message any SotW members seen online with this information, encouraging them to act to get things back on track.
• Current THB Status
  • We lost a large chunk of our active players recently to a raiding guild. Around 16 people have been lost and that's been a big hit to Kara groups and Gruul aspirations.
  • On the good news side, remnants of Teams Blue + Red (Karazhan) to reform as Team Purple. This looks viable although there's some shuffling to do around that. Phoebus (Roses of Dawn) and Juffa (The One), from Team Blue, are working on the reformation. Leadership still a bit under discussion, but Jazhara had offered.
  • Jazhara (Ye Olde Geezers) chimes in that he's since talked with Titanias (Ye Olde Geezers) who he feels would be more experienced and suitable as leader. Wandjina comments he was about to take Titanias as a replacement for Jazhara joining Team Purple. Pink has also lost TJtrouble (Ye Olde Geezers) and bedding in Hephmeister (Circle of Elder) as a new person, so Wandjina doesn't want too much disruption.
  • Other team is Team Black, an essentially new team, led by Gimlinox (Phoenix Legion) who is still going through the process of getting permanent members settled and used to playing with each other. Gimlinox comments that the first run went OK, but people need to learn to play with all in the group.
  • Wandjina recommends that Gimlinox remember to feel free to ask advice of any established people. You have some people with experience which will hopefully help, but their view may not include all you need to know to lead. Secondly, best of luck in getting people used to one another; once that works, a fixed team is one of your strengths. Also, where you have options, don't be afraid to be picky about who you accept. They'll be with you a while.
  • Elsheindra comments she's recently cleaned out the "WAITING" list, removing people no longer in THB or people who haven't been online in more than a month. The 25 people left should be around and available at least some of the time.
  • Wandjina: It looks like things are getting brighter again for Karazhan groups. We should have 3 functional again soon, to build up to Gruul's. However, we do need to let our members know more about what is happening so that they can join in/plan ahead/anticipate their options. At the moment, many people are feeling down because we've taken a step back. Beyond that, I'm hoping to learn lessons from what we've had happen.
  • Wandjina: Our current structure does invite focussed raiders to eventually leave us as they feel "held back" by others. Our numbers at the moment don't have much spare capacity to accommodate that. Therefore, we need to consider three options:
    • 1) Keep THB as it currently is, trying to recruit some more guilds. Then hope momentum builds fast enough and make concerted efforts to build that momentum. For this, we need be mindful that THB is a collection of casual/social guilds, so additional recruits should fit that same model. Beyond that, it remainds the same THB we know. We seem to be used to the fixed groups concept and that's with us going forwards.
    • 2) We make THB more widely accessable. At the moment, membership is by guilds so that they have reps and for structure. We could start inviting individuals as well. They wouldn't be able to represent themselves and would have to work on any dispute problems themselves, possibly with some input from me/Elsheindra. The big problem with this is a lot of guilds are going to do hard raiding up to the next WoW update/game release, Gimlinox comments, making it hard to notice social guilds. Elsheindra comments that it would also make it difficult to know who should be/shouldn't be in the channel. Bingley (Circle of Elder) thinks it would cause chaos. Wandjina thinks it's doable with some bookkeeping.
    • 3) Turn THB into a focussed raiding structure. This would ensure we retain raiding progress at the expense of much of the social aspect outside those raids.
  • Bingley (Circle of Elder) suggests an additional option: maybe guilds should recruit more actively so we get more players scheduled?
    • Elsheindra comments that The One doesn't actively recruit and has a cap of 50 accounts maximum which they're not currently far from.
    • Wandjina says it's an option but means recruiting within current character of your guilds which slows things down. He's all for a larger number of people but doesn't want to find us drifting towards a different character by accident rather than by decision.
    • Jazhara (Ye Olde Geezers) reminds people that probably many will return who don't like the strict rules of a raiding guild after having experienced it. Wandjina adds or when they experience their first major block. Elsheindra agrees this is true but isn't counting on it. Wandjina says we need to proceed on assumption they won't and have things running smoothly and get them back as a bonus.
  • Seems like we're all comfortable with THB as it currently is, accepting it has its down sides and we need to give more people the opportunity to experience it as part of our guilds. The more people we have who fit in, the better it gets.
  • Other thing to add: remember to encourage your guildees to make use of THB. It doesn't replace your guild (and shouldn't) but it's not for a select few. Also need to remember that for raiding/fixed groups, people will get spots if they are appropriately geared/skilled, etc.
  • Decision: Leave THB as it currently is, but encourage our guildees to make use of it on a wider scale because it's not for a select few.
• GEM Channel Usage & Alts
  • Bingley (Circle of Elder) comments that many CoE members left for a raiding guild but still retain alts in CoE and therefore still have access to THB GEM. Their loyalty is to another guild and they're using CoE as a parking spot for alts.
  • Elsheindra points out this is a guild issue. If they're not contributing, then remove them. Anyone who belongs to a THB guild is welcome to join the THB channel, subject to rules of their own guild.
  • Wandjina says: It is up to each guild who, within that guild, has access to THB. He doesn't know how you'd police it for things like password changes, but that's a question again for your guild.
  • Astrakhan (Roses of Dawn) says if they're well-disposed towards your guild, they'll do as you ask and stay out of THB. If not, then kick 'em. Bingley (Circle of Elder) says it's difficult to kick friends but will give it thought. Bingley was promoted to G.M. unexpectedly.
  • Wandjina reminds Bingley that he has other leaders here to talk to, some of them with years of experience. THB isn't just for grouping. We're here because we feel like we can all be friends. That includes giving advice if asked.
  • Wandjina: If you do need advice or a sympathetic ear, THB forum has all guilds listed and their GMs. None of them will bite if asked for advice. You can also look in GEM for people in green. Blue people are officers but we're not sure how GEM decides that.
  • Jazhara (Ye Olde Geezers) comments it would hard for him to make out who has to be kicked from THB channels and who not, because YOG has people leaving for Nefarious but who still have mains in YOG.
  • Wandjina: Some people specifically asked if they could remain in THB so they wouldn't lose touch. Our precedent has been that people who have alts are allowed in the channel with their "other" (non-THB) guilded characters as well. So we do rely on the guilds to police which of their members has access.
  • Elsheindra: Wandjina and Elsheinda do keep an eye on the channel and ask people who show up with unfamiliar names/guild tags what they're doing in the channel.
• Misc.
  • Wandjina: From the point of THB groups/raids, we have a regular shortage of tanks/healers. We don't believe in forcing people to play a particular role, but it people ask, those are the classes that will see the most opportunity.
  • Jazhara (Ye Olde Geezers): Just wants to say that you are all doing great and shouldn't be discouraged by people leaving for a raiding guild.
  • Zul'Aman: We are looking forward. Basil and Elsheindra are looking at the viability of a team for Zul'Aman which we can point at to show progress, but we're doing it carefully. Ideally, we want to see fixed groups go from Karazhan to Zul'Aman but we need to rebuild them a bit.
  • If you want to raise something, do. Post in the forum (new news item) or e-mail us.